The Freedom Ring Controversy

[Jordan D. White]

Robert,

I've just been reading a little about the controversy on this character, and... well, I don't know. I can see both sides... but in the end, I guess I just don't know why you chose to go the route you did.

As I am sure you know, a number of people are upset that you introduced an all-new gay hero to the Marvel Universe only to have him killed in a pretty horrific (and possibly offensive, if the 'penetrations' are read into as some people have) manner. Add to that a number of bad timing coincidences (not the least of which was Joe Q touting Ring as an example of Marvel being ok with Gayness) and it doesn't look good.

Now, as a writer, I can appreciate the issue from a creative standpoint. In regards to this character, in my eyes he seems to have been created to die. A lot of emphasis was put on his inexperience, the inexperience that resulted in his death. In that regard, it's a pretty comprehensible character-arc. Hell, Crusader warns him against using Ring in his name, and he does it anyway. Then, he dies.

But I don't see where the gayness fits into that arc. Now, you don't have to be making a political statement every time you create a gay character. Hell, I have written gay characters that have had some fairly awful things happen to them. Awful things happen to all sorts of people, gay and straight and everything else. But, I don't see how this character's gayness is essential to his character which serves his function (that of inexperience leading to death)... which makes me wonder why you made him gay.

Now, I would never assume that you made this character gay in a homophobic way. I am not suggesting, at all, that you dislike gays and wanted to make one just so you could kill him. The overall treatment of his gayness before his death doesn't seem to fit with that type of MO... plus, I read pretty much all your books, letters pages, and met you at a con, and you seem like a really good guy.

So, in my mind, the most likely scenario is that you made him gay "randomly". His sexuality doesn't really factor into the arc you intended for him, so he could have been anything. As I said, bad things happen to gays and straights alike, so... why not make him gay? Ok, fine. And, like I said, his gayness was presented as pretty ok in the first few issues with him, so its possible that you were trying to do some good with his gayness there, raising awareness. But all that seems so futile when you slaughter him an issue later. And I can see why people were hurt by it.

In the final estimation, I would say that making him gay took away from the "inexperience" arc, because it brought up such a sensitive issue. I don't know what my purpose is for writing this, right now. I mean, I'm not clamoring for an apology or anything. I guess I just wanted to know what you thought of all this.

PS: On a somewhat unrelated note, tomorrow (10/11) is national Coming Out Day, which may be why it was on my mind. My best friend runs a GLBT group on the university campus in town, and I've just been at a prep meeting. In the spirit of full disclosure, I'll come out as a straight ally.

[Robert Kirkman]

Freedom Ring was always planned as an inexperienced hero who would get beaten up constantly and probably die. I wanted to comment on the fact that most superheroes get thier powers and are okay at it... and that's not how life works.

During working on the book, I was also noticing that most gay characters... are all about being gay. Straight characters are well-rounded characters who like chicks. So I wanted to do a well-rounded character who just happened to like dudes.

Then I decided to combine the two ideas.

In hindsight, yeah, killing a gay character is no good when there are so few of them... but I really had only the best of intentions in mind.

-Robert

[Jordan D. White]

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. Sounds like your thoughts were pretty much what I figured, and much less what the more suspicious and cynical readers had though, which I am glad about.

In regards to gay characters being all about being gay, and Ring not being that- yeah, I agree. That was what I meant by his gayness being treated with respect before he died. There are a lot of characters who are gay (or are 'revealed' to be gay) who then become all about their gayness, and he wasn't that, which was refreshing. In that respect, it was a great thing to do... except that he was intended to get killed. I hope that you can do it again some day (at Marvel or elsewhere) with a non-doomed character. I, for one, will be reading your books either way (and I hope Ant-Man can last longer than MTU, which I was sad to see go).

Again, thanks for getting back to me, and thanks for being the nice, stand-up guy I thought you were.

[AKA Scott Baio]

i'll provide another point of view. i liked Curtis immediately and didn't realize he was gay, until the second issue of that arc (not even after the purse comments). i just thought he was a well-designed character with a very cool set of powers, decent supporting cast, and a unique and quirky personality. Curtis, even if he changed his codename (i still like 'Freedom Ring'), had potential to appear elsewhere. it's geeky but he was an essential component of my "dreamteam" lineups. gah!! he was just perfect and now he's replaced by a lackluster character like "Crusader." sorry Kirkman, i just think that skrull guy sucks. he has none of Curtis' spark. yeah, i understand you killing him to show that heroes are mortal. but, hell, hasn't Bendis killed enough superfolk to drive that lesson home? now the marvel universe has been deprived of a hero who brings his own syrup to diners.

P.S. *sob* now i'll never get my Freedom Ring/Irredeemable Ant-Man crossover!

[JPalmer567]

Hi, Mr. Kirkman,
My name is Joe Palmer, and I run a website, www.gayleague.com. that you may have heard mention of in relation to your character. I've been one of the vocal detractors. After reading your comments here and having learned from a source before Joe Q made his announcement what happened behind the scenes with the Rawhide Kid Handbook entry, I thought I might try to extend a white flag of truce. My comments were rather harsh so it would be understandable if you decide either not to reply or tell me to take a flying leap.

Joe Palmer

[Robert Kirkman]

[Cmdr_Y]

I just have to say that shouldn't the fact that Robert didn't take into consideration that the character is gay when writing the book be the goal of anti-discrimination groups?

Or should minorities get special consideration over other characters? would that be discrimination?

When I'm writing a story, I include characters that I either feel strongly about or that contribute to the point of the story. Should I start writing about a gay character, a black character just so that I can maintain a certain percentage of minority characters?

Here's something that happened just a couple of weeks ago. I'm writing a script centered on a group of four teenagers. During a planning/development meeting the artist, he told me that he wanted to make a particular character black. I said sure -- it's not going to change my script or the character's dialogue. No problem, done.

My core group of characters now explicitly include at least one black teen. Should I ensure that he doesn't get harmed, killed, embarassed, etc just because he's black or should I just tell the same story I was going to tell prior to that determination? As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to tell the same story I was going to previously - to change it would be wrong both to the story and ethically.

[grobar]

This topic is so gay...
Let's make everybody gay in the comic books ! Or black just to piss some racists off ! Or fat,goddamn imagine a book about fat people,that's what Marvel or DC should do, +- the half of the Americans is fat!Forget gays that's the new hole in the comic book market ! People will buy it fa'suh !

[Major Khaos]

Haven't these issues (no pun intended) been covered (okay, pun intended) in the "re-vamped" X-Force and X-Statix?




Was I really the only one reading those books?

[AKA Scott Baio]

[theDeacon]

Well,

I remember making kind of a big stink about the uselessness of Freedom Ring's homosexuality months back. It was just kind of a "me too" thing in a time when gay characters are en vogue in comics.

I still feel that way, BUT...

Why would anyone have a problem with killing him off because he's gay? When Robert kills off a black character that doesn't make him racist, or if he killed off a jewish character, it doesn't make him anti-semetic either.

The problem with gays being accepted comes more from the gay community itself, looking for reasons to slap someone with a homophobic tag. Grow up.

I read the issue, mostly disliked the whole story arc (sorry) and the green lantern ripoff, but I didn't think anything of it until I set foot in a comics shop. You'd think they'd raised MLK from the grave and then slapped him with OJ's bloody glove. Two homosexual people were actually having a fit over it (I'm withholding tasteless jokes here).

I'm half black (and no, I'm going to avoid using silly PC terms like 'african american' and 'person of color') and when I was younger I used to do the same thing: look for incidents where I could call a white person a racist. I grew up and decided to get a life instead of projecting my lack of self confidence onto others.

The homosexual community has made great leaps and strides towards social awareness, to the point where most of the 'X' and 'Y' Generation (ages teen to 30ish) could probably give a damn less who you're poking at night. Sorry to be crass, but the whole controversy is much to do about nothing. Besides, what man wouldn't have gay sex with Jack Bauer from the show 24 if they were locked in a prison with no women? SERIOUSLY.

I'd have expected alot better and find myself disappointed at the detractors for flying off the handle instead of...I dunno...talking to Mr. Kirkman FIRST or looking at things from a more neutral perspective.

[Major Khaos]

[Derek Ruiz]

[JPalmer567]

Hi, Mr. Kirkman,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my comment. I appreciate it very much, and I understand you did not intend for the story or the events to be objectionable. I would like for nothing more than there to be a level playing field, and not have there be any other significance behind the death of an LGBT character than it is any time when there is the death of a character.

In retrospect, sure, it would have been a good idea to contact you before making any conclusions (or flying off the handle and overreacting as some would say). I was unaware of your participation in this forum until an acquaintance brought this topic to my attention.

I'm considering writing some kind of follow up article that would present this information, and examine reasons why some people - at least myself - reacted as they did. Would you be willing to make any comments?

If you would like to discuss this further, you can contact me privately at either palmer.joe@sbcglobal.net or glajoe@gayleague.com .

Joe Palmer

[theDeacon]

Right on, I'm feeling a group hug coming on here. And really, I don't mind if someone grabs my butt while we all hug. It's a grabbable butt.