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Erik Larsen
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 5498
Location: Oakland
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 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick Justus wrote: | Wow! Thanks, Jason. Yeah, I can definitely see now why Byrne would be pissed. I didn't realize the changes the inker made were that drastic. That's a shame.
I still like to think Kesel treated Byrne's pencils with the utmost respect, remaining faithful to the drawn line. |
Byrne was butchered by Nelson on Action Comics. The only issue that looked halfway decent (to me, at least) was inked by Larry Stucker (who did a fine job). Byrne's pencils were a bit off here and there--but that kind of treatment is uncalled for.
As I recall, Byrne complained about Karl's inking--he didn't call him out by name but he did bellyache about an inker that had "been in the business for five minutes" changing his work and at that point Karl was the only person that could be considered a newcomer that he was working with (both Dick Giordano and John Beatty had been in the business for years).
I liked Terry Austin the best over John. I have a few pages of original art that those two did together and they're outstanding. Other favorites include Bob Wiacek, Al Gordon and Walter Simonson who inked an X-Factor Annual that kicked all kinds of ass.
| Nick Justus wrote: | | I'd like to see some examples of Erik's early pencils compared side by side with the finished inked versions by other inkers. I don't care how good an inker is, no one inks Larsen like Larsen. In my humble opinion the closest thing would be Klaus Janson inking Erik's pencils. Check out the first couple issues of Defenders they did a few years ago. And, there was some good looking material in SD #100. |
There's an issue of Comics Interview from years ago that featured some and more recent pencils (and inks) can be found in the second DRAW magazine collection. The reason my inks over my pencils looks like nobody else is that I'm drawing with ink. I do bare bones layouts and do finishes over that. I add a lot that isn't in the pencils--and wouldn't be in the pencils had I done full pencils. I also tend to (or try to) fix things that inkers wouldn't fix in my pencils.
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-Erik Larsen
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Jason Green
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 3243
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Erik Larsen wrote: | | Byrne was butchered by Nelson on Action Comics. The only issue that looked halfway decent (to me, at least) was inked by Larry Stucker (who did a fine job). Byrne's pencils were a bit off here and there--but that kind of treatment is uncalled for. |
I liked the look that Nelson gave Byrne's pencils, but the changes were, as you said, uncalled for. Before I even knew that Nelson was changing things, I thought to myself several times while flipping through the art that sometimes the characters didn't have that "Byrne look" that I was used to. Knowing Nelson would completely repencil parts of the art made that observation make more sense. When he WAS faithful, though, I thought it looked pretty good.
| Erik Larsen wrote: | | As I recall, Byrne complained about Karl's inking--he didn't call him out by name but he did bellyache about an inker that had "been in the business for five minutes" changing his work and at that point Karl was the only person that could be considered a newcomer that he was working with (both Dick Giordano and John Beatty had been in the business for years). |
Nowhere near the level of travesty as when Kesel had to completely overhauled an entire Liefeld issue of Hawk & Dove.
| Erik Larsen wrote: | | I liked Terry Austin the best over John. I have a few pages of original art that those two did together and they're outstanding. Other favorites include Bob Wiacek, Al Gordon and Walter Simonson who inked an X-Factor Annual that kicked all kinds of ass. |
I liked Scott Hanna's inks over Byrne on Amazing Spider-Man. Tom Palmer did some good work on X-Men: Hidden Years as well. |
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Erik Larsen
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 5498
Location: Oakland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Jason Green wrote: | | Erik Larsen wrote: | | As I recall, Byrne complained about Karl's inking--he didn't call him out by name but he did bellyache about an inker that had "been in the business for five minutes" changing his work and at that point Karl was the only person that could be considered a newcomer that he was working with (both Dick Giordano and John Beatty had been in the business for years). |
Nowhere near the level of travesty as when Kesel had to completely overhauled an entire Liefeld issue of Hawk & Dove.
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Karl redrew a LOT of things. In a number of issues he erased panels and drew something else. At one point Rob and I swapped pages and Rob told me two of the panels on the page I got had been drawn by Karl.
And, incidentally--Rob was following MY example. When I had drawn the Chaos Dimension in the Doom Patrol I had the pages go to a landscape format. Rob was just following what had been established. The problem was (I was told) that "Rob didn't ask" and that "if he'd have asked it probably would have been okay."
Seems like a lot of trouble to prove a point.
I didn't ask either, incidentally.
Similarly, Todd McFarlane drew a landscape page in the miniseries Invasion that was fit into the shape of Superman's "S" symbol. Those images were cut out and rearranged so that it was turned into a normal page.
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-Erik Larsen
Savage Dragon perpetrator
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Jason Green
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 3243
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Well, according to to Karl Kesel (see that page I linked to in my last post)...
| Karl Kesel wrote: | | By the way: Rob did NOT draw the dimension sideways because that’s how it had been drawn the only other time it had been shown. THIS was the first time it had been shown– Barbara and I created it for this story. |
So maybe there was some confusion in that the name Chaos Dimension was being reused, so the writer, inker, and editor didn't "get" the connection to the Chaos Dimension you had illustrated before?
And what is it with all you Image guys and your sideways pages? Rob, you, Todd...even Michael Turner was doing that all the time on Witchblade.  |
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Erik Larsen
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 5498
Location: Oakland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Jason Green wrote: | Well, according to to Karl Kesel (see that page I linked to in my last post)...
| Karl Kesel wrote: | | By the way: Rob did NOT draw the dimension sideways because that’s how it had been drawn the only other time it had been shown. THIS was the first time it had been shown– Barbara and I created it for this story. |
So maybe there was some confusion in that the name Chaos Dimension was being reused, so the writer, inker, and editor didn't "get" the connection to the Chaos Dimension you had illustrated before?
And what is it with all you Image guys and your sideways pages? Rob, you, Todd...even Michael Turner was doing that all the time on Witchblade. |
Karl is wrong. See Doom Patrol #14--it's even on the cover www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=26394977044%2014
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-Erik Larsen
Savage Dragon perpetrator
www.savagedragon.com
www.imagecomics.com |
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JayWicky
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 1156
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Fresco wrote: | | heh good one JAY... I loved HIS Alpha Flight... |
So did I. I loved the original Box, I loved the cyborg Vindicator, all that good shit... In a perfect world, Byrne would go back to Alpha Flight... he created half of the characters when he was in high school after all... and that would keep him away from doing damage to other Marvel and DC characters...
I would have no problem at all with him fucking up Alpha Flight because he created them and that's his prerogative. I'm somehow less enthusiastic when he goes berserk on Superman, Spider-Man or the classic X-Men, using his own failed "logic" as a basis for his stories...
JW |
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aegreatone
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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too bad about the savage dragon cartoon not gettin released, i only remember bits and pieces of it when i saw it back when i was a kid. it look like a kids' show, nothing like what i saw in SD #1
(When i was a kid, i only got savage dragon #1 cuz i wanted all the image comics #1, stupid i know)
anyways, yeah I remember collecting a few maxx's and then i saw it became a cartoon. The comics and the anime were almost the same, a great translation.
I know this cuz i never got the comics when i bought em', and then when they came out with the anime, it was the same and i still didn't get it 
seriously, the maxx wasn't made for 9 yr olds, i just like the sex and violence, it was too deep for me  |
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